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Antique Bourgogne Octagonal Floor

Discussion in 'Tilers Forum' started by johnny, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. ATS Diamond Tools

    ATS Diamond Tools Tiling Product Supplier

    It was predominantly coming from Artisan's in Devises, who had sourced it from French reclamation yards. It was horrendously expensive.

    I did a great deal of work for Bretheren in and around Surrey/Sussex/Kent, so the link to Artisans there was quite strong.
     
  2. Joe @ Hillhead Tiling

    Joe @ Hillhead Tiling Awesome Contributor

    I have to look at an 80m2 floor in Dublin any day now! But it's porcelain and to be laid over terracotta which has been down 30 years.... Cry. :(
     
  3. johnny

    johnny Serious Contributor

    I still quite bit of tiling recommended by artisans of Devizes.they don't have a fixing service any more but they do recommend me for jobs as I know their products pretty well.
    I didnt think they had been going 20 years though.
    I do remember telling Charlie smallbone who owned Paris ceramics that they were going to be the company to watch end of 90s.he just laughed !
    They have gone on from strength to strength whereas Paris ceramics went bust 4 years ago.
    I still had 15 years as their main preferred tiler and had some amazing jobs all over the world.
     
  4. Viva Tiling

    Viva Tiling Top Notch Contributor

    absolutely loving that floor Johnny
     
  5. ATS Diamond Tools

    ATS Diamond Tools Tiling Product Supplier


    They were originally a plastering firm if I remember correctly. Or the guy that started it all was a commercial plasterer.

    I subcontracted for a firm in Purley Surrey called Whitehouse Furnishings (since gone) who were Bretheren, their showroom was fitted out with Artisans product and that's where the link started. That would have been early to mid 90's

    They weren't the easiest people to work with
     
  6. johnny

    johnny Serious Contributor

    ok. i know where you are coming from now.
    i had heard years ago that artisans had their only showroom outside of devizes in purley but i could never find anyone who had heard of it .
    i never went to seek it out and this must have been whitehouse furnishings.
    artisans owners were originally plasterers as you mentioned , hence their quite unique take on how some things should be done and they are still quite different in many ways to other stone companies.
    in fact whilst i am thinking of purley there may be a connection that makes sense now.
    the owner of trimline is bruce hazell and he was originally based in coulsdon just down the road from purley and i used to deal with him as a company known as bryson products.
    trimline are plymouth brethren and artisans are currently buying the eco keracoll e40 from them and must be getting a very good deal as i find this adhesive good but not that competitive in cost for me.
    see, its whgo you know!
    that said i have a very good relationship with artisans even though they know i have connections with many high end stone competitors.
     
  7. johnny

    johnny Serious Contributor

    few more photos .
    we have now virtually finished the breakfast room.
    i am now doing a recalculation to see how best we can utilise the remaining stone from both batches for three other areas.
    we are looking to cut a border strip out of middle section of an octagonal tile and then use wastage to each side to manufacture 2 cabachons of field stone colour to make up for lack of slate cabachon in second batch.
    basically i am looking to squeeze as much as we can in whatever format or pattern out of stock bought .
    we are distressing all cut edges as we go.
    as already stated in earlier post , the borders are much darker as they have a build up of maintainer on them but we will use a tested cleaner tomorrow to try and get a suitable melange of colour over whole floor. 2013-07-30 07.49.16.jpg 2013-07-30 12.56.15.jpg 2013-07-30 12.56.35.jpg 2013-07-29 09.55.58.jpg 2013-07-30 07.49.16.jpg 2013-07-30 12.56.15.jpg 2013-07-30 12.56.35.jpg 2013-07-29 09.55.58.jpg
     
    jay likes this.
  8. ATS Diamond Tools

    ATS Diamond Tools Tiling Product Supplier

    Well it was me that fitted all the tiling in that showroom in Purley. (I grew up in Coulsdon).

    You're right about Trimline also being Bretheren. Always used to be closed on a Saturday.

    I don't know when Whitehouse Furnishings closed, but I passed the shop only last week and saw they were no longer there. The guy that ran it (with his sons) was a trained cabinet maker, they used to produce very high end kitchens, bathrooms and bedrooms, much of which was made on the premises. It really was traditional and a shame it went.

    We used to get no end of problems with split batches of products being sent up, sometimes entirely different colours never mind shades. I guess that's plasterers eye? :)
     
    johnny likes this.
  9. Dave@BTC

    Dave@BTC Tiling Product Supplier

    A good chunk of the tiling industry are brethren. Trimline, diatech, specialist tiling supplies, Milcot tools, thermonet, to name a few.
     
  10. johnny

    johnny Serious Contributor

    latest pics after we have finished kitchen and breakfast room.
    loads of salts and impurities coming out now and will need to leave for a while before sealing.
    now looking at what we have left for wine cellar/utitlity and w.c
    need to cut down thickness of slate to use as a border with thicker stone.
    also think that we will need to recut octagonals to a smaller dimension for one area , but all achievable. 007.JPG 009.JPG 008.JPG 011.JPG 012.JPG 013.JPG 014.JPG
     
    jay likes this.
  11. johnny

    johnny Serious Contributor

    latest pics after we have finished kitchen and breakfast room.
    loads of salts and impurities coming out now and will need to leave for a while before sealing.
    now looking at what we have left for wine cellar/utitlity and w.c
    need to cut down thickness of slate to use as a border with thicker stone.
    also think that we will need to recut octagonals to a smaller dimension for one area , but all achievable. View attachment 5901 View attachment 5902 View attachment 5903 View attachment 5904 View attachment 5905 View attachment 5906 View attachment 5907
     
    Grace's Dad likes this.
  12. johnny

    johnny Serious Contributor

    still so much to do before end result but it is taking shape.
    i have submitted six different joint finishes utilising westerham sand/playpit sand/grey and white cement to varying proportions.
    sealer most likely to be stainstop and very hard clear french wax for kitchen and then a darker marron wax for breakfast area where reclaimed stone is lighter.
     
    Peter likes this.
  13. jay

    jay Awesome Contributor

    Starting to grow on me Johnny nice work :thumbsup:
     
    johnny likes this.
  14. ATS Diamond Tools

    ATS Diamond Tools Tiling Product Supplier

    This is the kind of product that just comes alive once it's grouted and finished.
     
    johnny likes this.
  15. johnny

    johnny Serious Contributor

    i know you know that it can only get better or at least i hope so!
    i am posting these pics as i thought the members would not have seen a project like this evolve, many times on this forum.
    to be honest i dont know how it will turn out but i have done so many old floors i dont get stressed now as long as i show the client the process i am taking to achieve what i hope they want.
    I have an absolute corker of an old floor that i have not been able to show till now .
    once in a lifetime job but i cant reveal yet,
     
  16. jay

    jay Awesome Contributor

    The first lot of pics ///i was not sure,With the latest pics i can see the big picture and it has me interested should come up nice when finished will wait and see
    thanks for the post Johnny
     
  17. johnny

    johnny Serious Contributor

    shame you are so far way . you have to see these type of floors in situ to really appreciate what they are.
    i think there is probably many a story to be told by each stone over two hundred years.
    will have been a few cracked heads and bones whilst been hauled in and out of cells leading off this area.
    if you think the british were brutal then the french were always in the frame.
    i once got hospitalised in sweden by a reclaimed stone from france that had been in an abattoir and sold as coming from a chateaux.
    the smell of urine and faeces was overwhelming and then when we cut the stone the bacteria closed my whole throat up!
     
  18. jay

    jay Awesome Contributor

    Might just skip breakfast now thanks
     
    johnny likes this.
  19. johnny

    johnny Serious Contributor

    now completed fixing tiles in utility and wine store utilising tiles left over from both batches for kitchen and breakfast area.
    not enough slate cabachons to match the no of tiles so assume the slate cabachons must have been damaged when floor was dug up.
    i therefore suggested we make cabachons from the field stone octagons to give a slightly different look in utility.
    only get two cabs from one octagonal tile so this is a very expensive cabachon but there were not enough tiles to do another area so good to use what we have left.
    i still cannot get my head round the fact that the original slate cabachons were an even 125mm square and they were virtually butt jointed with no grout ,yet when we have relaid stone
    i have virtually no cabachons of an even dimension both ways that we can just drop in.
    this stone is approx 200 years old and if the cabachons are even size which is what i have ,the original fixers must have loose laid the octagons as square tiles that must have been hand cut and placed a template even sized cabachon over and marked and cut to suit .
    i have had to cut every cabachon individually although there was a common denominator that the dimension of one width of cabachon was 90% even.
    anyway we have sorted this out but i would be intrigued to hear from anyone who has experience in this filed and could help me understand.
    i actually had a similar problem more than 20 years ago when i was doing repairs of edwardian tessalated tiles on the famous lion estates in london .
    i was told that the tiles were cut on site hence my problem getting hold of reclaimed tiles to restore floor but they may not have been a good fit when those tiles were fixed with virtually no joint at all.
    anyway few more pics.
    oh dear cant upload pics as they are too big.
    will try again morning
     
    jay likes this.
  20. jay

    jay Awesome Contributor

    More pics

    goody
     

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