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NZ Tilers Forum Do We Need A Tiling Association?

Discussion in 'NZ Tilers Forum' started by Bob Neary, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Bob Neary

    Bob Neary Tiling Forum Moderator Staff Member

    If any of the NZ members have followed the UK thread..http://www.tilingforum.co.uk/threads/testing-thread.1465/page-18
    From about here there is some discussion about The Tile Association of UK. This is it's website..http://www.tiles.org.uk/about/index.shtml
    The Aussies have this...http://www.australiantilecouncil.com.au/
    In the past I know some efforts have been made to create something like this here in NZ and I would like to hear from anyone who have been involved in these because I can't help think that perhaps the time is right to seriously ask ourselves, do we need a Tile Association of our own?
    So everyone let's hear your opinion on the subject in question. Do we need it? What would you expect it to do for you? How would the public benefit from it? I'm sure there are more questions, so ask them, and answer them, this is your forum, use it well.
     
  2. jay

    jay Awesome Contributor

    There is a new one started in OZ lord help us
     
  3. Bob Neary

    Bob Neary Tiling Forum Moderator Staff Member

    Details?
    Just another question for everyone... What would they have to do to get your support?
     
  4. jay

    jay Awesome Contributor

    Sent Bobby a conversation on it
     
  5. Brent

    Brent Tiling Products Support

    I think it would be a good thing the last time this was pushed here in NZ there were to many ego,s in the way. This type of association needs to have strong rules and codes of practise in place with a firm strong constitution . One area we need to tidy up in NZ is a standard tiling certificate for the guys out there who are tiling without any formal qualifications. Such tilers should be able to be accessed based on the fact that for years now here in NZ they have been tiling in most cases without any formal qualifications this would tidy things up to start with.
     
    Bob Neary likes this.
  6. mcdongle

    mcdongle New Contributor

    Assessed by who?? i have been tiling for 35 years when i started there were no formal qualifications was just put with a tiler for years and learnt,Best way if you ask me...
     
  7. Bob Neary

    Bob Neary Tiling Forum Moderator Staff Member

    That's the problem, you and I and a few of us were put with competent tilers, but a lot of guys are not or have not and go from job to job leaving botch up after botch up behind them. The biggest problem is that its whats gone on underneath the apparently satisfactory job. For a couple of years and 10s of thousands of dolars damage later is really the final result these guys are producing. This cannot continue imo.There really needs to be a way of protecting the public from these guys.
    If its compulsory registration then so be it. It won't bother the professionals and any registration fees can be made up during the year by discounted products and services by affiliated companies.
     
  8. mcdongle

    mcdongle New Contributor

    Thanks for replying Bob, Don't want to be a pain but Assessed by who?? We have just been on a job where a registered plumber has fixed the waste in 30mm up in the air on the front and down onto the substrate at the back, being registered isnt the whole answer.
     
  9. Bob Neary

    Bob Neary Tiling Forum Moderator Staff Member

    True, registration on its own isn't the answer but the structure and constitution of the organization that members are registered to will determine who and how the assessment is done.
    That's why I think the industry needs the input from everyone as to whether a tiling association is the answer.
    The plumber in question might have just had a bad day, either way something went wrong. The thing is if it's just an isolated incident no amount of training and checking will prevent it, crap happens.
    But if the tradesman continues to make mistakes, then a feedback system that adds or subtracts to his registered record could Indicate some sort of training is required.
    I don't believe in a system of crime and punishment but assessment and training.
    This of course is just my opinion.
    By the way, your input is always welcome.
     
  10. Frank

    Frank New Contributor

    Hi all.

    I'm the MD of the Australian Master Tilers Association (lord help us). Great to hear you guys are thinking about an Association. Like in NZ, there were many attempts to set this up over the last 20 years and as was said in an earlier post, egos got in the way back then. This time we decided to just set it up and see what happens. Unfortunately, the egos of people whose glass is perpetually half empty still try to get in the way.

    Our early stage website is up at http://www.mastertilers.org. Still very simple but it is being updated almost on a daily basis. If you want to know more on how we've gone about it, the challenges or even what not to do, I'm happy to answer PM's or email me frank at mastertilers.org.

    Forum is also now live: http://forum.mastertilers.org
     
    Bob Neary and jay like this.
  11. jay

    jay Awesome Contributor

    Welcome to the forum Frank
     
  12. branty1uk

    branty1uk Tiling Forum Moderator Staff Member

    Welcome Frank.
     
  13. Bob Neary

    Bob Neary Tiling Forum Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks for the offer Frank might have a few questions for you, and welcome to our Forum
     
  14. Alec De martin

    Alec De martin New Contributor

    I agree with everything you've said, but I do have a gripe. I was the Chairman when the Ceramic Tile Association of NZ (CTANZ) was set up, and I can assure you that egos did not get in the way, in fact I find that quite offensive. We had self employed tilers, as well as suppliers, on the Board. In fact, 1 tiler used to drive from Palmerston North to Auckland every 2 weeks for the meetings. What we were trying to do was for the benefit of the industry, nothing else. We all gave up time voluntarily, (evening meetings) for more than 2 years. It got too big to do part-time, and we wanted to put on a full time person. To fund this we needed some help from a couple of tile importers, but it didn't get off the ground, and just died a natural death. Anyway that aside, the biggest issue with any association is the people who don't join. What can be done about them, they are still able to work in the market, and more than likely are the ones who cause the problems because anyone who joins an association at least makes a committment to abide by the rules and standards adopted. I have also been involved in the Waterproofing Membrane Association which has just (and I mean just) finished producing a Code of Practice for Internal Wet Area Membranes. All the members of the association have agreed, by their membersip, to abide by the Code. Problem is, of the 18 tile adhesive companies in NZ with waterproofing membranes, only 4 are members. Luckily, the 4 are major players in the market, and the Association itself is now a major force with the Departrment of Building and Housing and many Councils. All the others were invited, many times, but basically have chosen to go it alone, and it will be to their detriment when the regulations change.
    However, the Association itself is made up of material suppliers and applicators who pay a sub of $250.00.
    This post is really to advise that any association will be made up of like-minded people, and unless there is some compulsion to join, there will always be others that simply don't care and will carry on doing what they have always done, sometimes badly.
     
    Bob Neary likes this.
  15. Bob Neary

    Bob Neary Tiling Forum Moderator Staff Member

    Just to quickly clear this up. I think frank was replying to Brent's comment and was likening it to the situation they had in Oz. I don't think he was referring to NZ
     
  16. Bob Neary

    Bob Neary Tiling Forum Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks Alec. I heard of CTANZ when I was new in the trade but never really knew how it went nor why it disappeared.
    Your points are fair, but it's 2012 now and it's so much easier to communicate amongst ourselves these days. It means that any assoc. we have will be made known and promoted so much better today.
    Also I think that any assoc. should have the backing of local govt. or industry standard authority.
    That way it would be compulsory membership that would have benefits that can be had immediately.
    Or I think advertising the assoc among all the tile companies as a certified membership that will benefit the consumers. If the public know about the assoc. and the benefits of choosing a registered member they won't opt for someone that's not reg.
    But in the end it's really up to the customer. As usual if you go for a cheap un registered tiler that leaves a trail of ruin behind him then that's their problem.
    Education and communication is what will make it work in my humble opinion.
     
  17. Alec De martin

    Alec De martin New Contributor

    You are always going to get 2 sorts of people in associations, those that get invloved in the setting up and running of it, generally for benefit of others and the industry as a whole, and those that join because there is something in it for them. Of course, there is also the 3rd type that won't join unless you can answer their question, "What's in it for me?"
     
  18. Bob Neary

    Bob Neary Tiling Forum Moderator Staff Member

    Yes agree " what's in it for me" has always been a question that I ask myself but on behalf of the potential members of the forum. But fair enough though. If its what will motivate them to join the forum or an Assoc. then so be it. The benefit to all will soon be apparent and after all if it works then recommendations to join will follow especially as the lines of communication already exist.
     
  19. Alec De martin

    Alec De martin New Contributor

    It's a valid point you make, I think a demand needs to be created at the other end, eg. the customer will only use a member of the association, then guys who don't get work would need to join. However, it still won't be for the right reason. I don't have all the answers (contrary to what may appear in my long posts), but one thing I have learnt, is this, any association has to be pro-active in the market and create that demand, realising that while tilers would become their members, the public are the ones that need focussing on. The best example of this is the current ad that says " Choose a Registered Master Builder". When everybody building a house does this, then anyone not a registered master builder, won't get any work.
     
    Bob Neary likes this.
  20. Bob Neary

    Bob Neary Tiling Forum Moderator Staff Member

    I agree 100% Alec. It sounds like we should have a meeting of minds. I'm willing to give my time on it. I'm sure there must be others. And if we can get some corporate support it can only be a good thing for them and the industry.
    The other thing is that I would prefer those getting involved in the set up to be motivated, based on benefitting the industry and others, I think to start with it would have to be a labour of love.
     

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